Legislature(1995 - 1996)

03/19/1996 08:05 AM House STA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
             HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE                            
                         March 19, 1996                                        
                           8:05 a.m.                                           
                                                                               
                                                                               
 MEMBERS PRESENT                                                               
                                                                               
 Representative Jeannette James, Chair                                         
 Representative Scott Ogan, Vice Chair                                         
 Representative Joe Green                                                      
 Representative Ivan Ivan                                                      
 Representative Brian Porter                                                   
 Representative Caren Robinson                                                 
 Representative Ed Willis                                                      
                                                                               
 MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                
                                                                               
 All members present.                                                          
                                                                               
 COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                            
                                                                               
 Confirmation of Greg Roczicka to the Board of Game.                           
                                                                               
      - CONFIRMATION ADVANCED                                                  
                                                                               
 Confirmation of Anne K. Ruggles to the Board of Game.                         
                                                                               
      - CONFIRMATION ADVANCED                                                  
                                                                               
 Confirmation of Victor Van Ballenberghe to the Board of Game.                 
                                                                               
      - CONFIRMATION ADVANCED                                                  
 HOUSE BILL NO. 383                                                            
 "An Act relating to reimbursement by the state to municipalities              
 and certain established villages for services provided to                     
 individuals incapacitated by alcohol; and providing for an                    
 effective date."                                                              
                                                                               
      - SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                
                                                                               
 HOUSE BILL NO. 371                                                            
 "An Act relating to the rights of terminally ill persons."                    
                                                                               
      - SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                
 (* First public hearing)                                                      
                                                                               
 PREVIOUS ACTION                                                               
 No Previous Action.                                                           
                                                                               
                                                                               
 WITNESS REGISTER                                                              
                                                                               
 GREG ROCZICKA, Appointee                                                      
 Board of Game                                                                 
 P.O. Box 513                                                                  
 Bethel, Alaska 99559                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 543-2903                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Answered questions regarding the confirmation.         
                                                                               
 ANNE K. RUGGLES, Appointee                                                    
 Board of Game                                                                 
 P.O. Box 82950                                                                
 Fairbanks, Alaska 99708                                                       
 Telephone:  (907) 474-3755                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Answered questions regarding the confirmation.         
                                                                               
 VICTOR VAN BALLENBERGHE, Appointee                                            
 Board of Game                                                                 
 8941 Winchester Street                                                        
 Anchorage, Alaska 99507                                                       
 Telephone:  (907) 344-1613                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Answered questions regarding the confirmation.         
                                                                               
 LEO KEELER                                                                    
 3810 Crosson Circle                                                           
 Anchorage, Alaska 99503                                                       
 Telephone:  (907) 561-8796                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony in support of Mr.                   
 Ballenberghe, Mr. Roczicka, and Ms. Ruggles.                                  
                                                                               
 ROBERT NANCE                                                                  
 3005 Carroll Lane                                                             
 Anchorage, Alaska 99517                                                       
 Telephone:  (907) 248-4619                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony in support of Mr.                   
 Ballenberghe.                                                                 
                                                                               
 JAY MASSEY                                                                    
 P.O. Box 429                                                                  
 Girdwood, Alaska 99587                                                        
 Telephone:  (907) 783-2129                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony in support of Mr.                   
 Ballenberghe.                                                                 
                                                                               
 WARREN OLSON                                                                  
 5961 Orth Circle                                                              
 Anchorage, Alaska 99516                                                       
 Telephone:  (907) 346-1811                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony in opposition to Mr.                
 Ballenberghe and Ms. Ruggles.                                                 
                                                                               
 MARVIN PARK, Legislative Vice President                                       
 Alaska Bow Hunters                                                            
 HC67 Box 1222                                                                 
 Anchor Point, Alaska 99556                                                    
 Telephone:  (907) 235-8125                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony in opposition to Mr.                
 Ballenberghe and Ms. Ruggles.                                                 
                                                                               
 DAN HASKINS                                                                   
 P.O. Box 157                                                                  
 Anchor Point, Alaska 99556                                                    
 Telephone:  (907) 235-2502                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony in opposition to Mr.                
 Ballenberghe.                                                                 
                                                                               
 TRISH WURTZ                                                                   
 P.O. Box 82864                                                                
 Fairbanks, Alaska 99708                                                       
 Telephone:  (907) 479-5688                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony in support of Mr.                   
 Ballenberghe.                                                                 
                                                                               
 KATHERINE RICHARDSON                                                          
 P.O. box 80766                                                                
 Fairbanks, Alaska 99708                                                       
 Telephone:  (907) 479-2362                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony in support of Ms. Ruggles.          
                                                                               
 JAMES DAVIS                                                                   
 2285 Truly Faire Lane                                                         
 Fairbanks, Alaska 99709                                                       
 Telephone:  (907) 455-6780                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony in support of Mr.                   
 Ballenberghe.                                                                 
                                                                               
 NAT GOOD, Member                                                              
 Delta Junction Fish and Game Advisory Committee                               
 P.O. Box 867                                                                  
 Delta Junction, Alaska 99737                                                  
 Telephone:  (907) 895-6282                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony in opposition to Mr.                
 Ballenberghe.                                                                 
                                                                               
 JOHN ZABIELSKI                                                                
 P.O. Box 453                                                                  
 Tok, Alaska 99780                                                             
 Telephone:  (907) 883-5506                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony in support of Mr.                   
 Ballenberghe.                                                                 
                                                                               
 ROBERT BROWN                                                                  
 P.O. Box 3448                                                                 
 Soldotna, Alaska 99669                                                        
 Telephone:  (907) 262-2227                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony in opposition to Ms.                
 Ruggles.                                                                      
                                                                               
 ROY BURKHART                                                                  
 P.O. Box 204                                                                  
 Willow, Alaska 99688                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 495-6337                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony in opposition to Ms.                
 Ruggles and Mr. Ballenberghe.                                                 
                                                                               
 ELIZABETH BURKHART                                                            
 P.O. Box 204                                                                  
 Willow, Alaska 99688                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 495-6337                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony in opposition to Ms.                
 Ruggles and Mr. Ballenberghe.                                                 
                                                                               
 DAVID GRINDE                                                                  
 P.O. Box 3236                                                                 
 Palmer, Alaska 99645                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 376-3275                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony in opposition to Mr.                
 Ballenberghe and Ms. Ruggles.                                                 
                                                                               
 WAYNE WOODS                                                                   
 P.O. Box 3037                                                                 
 Palmer, Alaska 99645                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 376-3892                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony in opposition to Mr.                
 Ballenberghe and Ms. Ruggles.                                                 
                                                                               
 GARY PAHL                                                                     
 P.O. Box 878549                                                               
 Wasilla, Alaska 99687                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 376-7610                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony in opposition to Ms.                
 Ruggles and Mr. Ballenberghe.                                                 
                                                                               
 KEN RIVARD                                                                    
 P.O. Box 871842                                                               
 Wasilla, Alaska 99687                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 376-2140                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony in opposition to Ms.                
 Ruggles and Mr. Ballenberghe.                                                 
                                                                               
 LEONARD HAIRE                                                                 
 P.O. Box 1043                                                                 
 Palmer, Alaska 99645                                                          
 Telephone:  Not available.                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony in opposition to Ms.                
 Ruggles.                                                                      
                                                                               
 EDDIE GRASSER, Member                                                         
 Alaska Outdoor Council                                                        
 4506 Robbie Road                                                              
 Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 463-3830                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony in opposition to Ms.                
 Ruggles and Mr. Ballenberghe and support of Mr. Roczicka.                     
                                                                               
 CARL ROSIER, Vice President                                                   
 Territorial Sportsman Inc.                                                    
 P.O. Box 20761                                                                
 Juneau, Alaska 99802                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 463-3830                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony in opposition to Ms.                
 Ruggles and Mr. Ballenberghe and support of Mr. Roczicka.                     
                                                                               
 JOEL BENNETT                                                                  
 Address not available.                                                        
 Telephone:  (907) 586-1255                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:   Provided testimony in support of Ms. Ruggles           
 and Mr. Ballenberghe.                                                         
                                                                               
 ACTION NARRATIVE                                                              
                                                                               
 TAPE 96-36, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 0015                                                                   
                                                                               
 The House State Affairs Committee was called to order by Chair                
 Jeannette James at 8:05 a.m.  Members present at the call to order            
 were Representatives Willis, Ogan, Green, Ivan, Porter, Robinson              
 and James.  No members were absent.                                           
                                                                               
 The first order of business to come before the House State Affairs            
 Committee was the confirmation hearing of Greg Roczicka to the                
 Board of Game.                                                                
                                                                               
 CHAIR JEANNETTE JAMES explained the three applicants were on-line             
 via teleconference.  She asked for a brief statement from each                
 before opening up the floor to questions from the committee                   
 members.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 0165                                                                   
                                                                               
 GREG ROCZICKA said he had lived in Bethel almost his entire life.             
 He had always wanted to be a game warden since a small child, and             
 had always been interested in resource issues.  He turned his                 
 interests into a career about 10 years ago, and started practicing            
 what he preached as part of the Association of Village Council                
 Presidents, Inc.  During the last 10 years he had been a part of              
 many contentious issues in Bethel.  He said when the seat became              
 open he submitted his name because there were not any                         
 representatives on the board from his area.                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES thanked Mr. Roczicka for his comments.  She asked the             
 committee members if they had any questions.                                  
                                                                               
 Number 0291                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ED WILLIS asked Mr. Roczicka if he had ever been               
 hunting, and what was his general philosophy towards hunting?                 
                                                                               
 Number 0320                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. ROCZICKA replied he had been hunting and fishing ever since he            
 was old enough to carry a rifle.  He viewed hunting as a way to               
 obtain food.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 0379                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN explained the Board of Game was                     
 controversial and a "heck of a lot of hard work."  He further                 
 explained a "hide thicker than a grizzly bear's" was needed to deal           
 with the pressure of the various interest groups.  He asked Mr.               
 Roczicka why he would want to subject himself to that pressure?               
                                                                               
 Number 0425                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. ROCZICKA replied he had been dealing with political controversy           
 for the past eight years.  He did not view it as any different than           
 what he had already been doing, except at a higher and broader                
 level.  He cited he worked on the United States - Canada Salmon               
 Treaty negotiations which was not an easy task.  Furthermore, over            
 the past five years he had been a liaison between state and federal           
 managers on subsistence issues.  He said he had callouses all over            
 his body now.                                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 0504                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN asked Mr. Roczicka if he had a strong                
 position on preferential hunting or hunting preferential for                  
 individuals?  He said he was skirting a very controversial issue.             
 He wondered, if he had a strong position on that issue, or was he             
 open to other positions.                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 0544                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. ROCZICKA replied the bottom line was to look at the harvest and           
 surplus of a population.  However, a lot of that information was              
 not available.  Furthermore, if there was enough to provide for               
 everybody and for all the desired uses, he did not have a problem.            
 However, if a person wanted to kill something, he believed it                 
 needed to be put to use.                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 0599                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES asked Mr. Roczicka his basic philosophy of the                    
 relationship between animals and humans?                                      
                                                                               
 Number 0618                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. ROCZICKA replied as a result of growing up in the country side,           
 he had developed a deep respect for nature.  He was thankful every            
 time he went out because he did not know if he would catch                    
 something or not.  He reiterated it was a relationship of deep                
 respect.  He called it a religious experience or feeling, and it              
 was very difficult for him to explain in words.                               
                                                                               
 Number 0658                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES commented there was a growing population of people and            
 a natural declining population of animals.  Some believed the                 
 animals should be left alone, and some believed the animals should            
 be managed to prevent a further declining population.  She asked              
 Mr. Roczicka, of the two approaches, which one did he prefer?                 
                                                                               
 Number 0700                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. ROCZICKA replied there must be a balance.  He did not agree               
 with extreme views.  A lot of it had to do with the lack of                   
 understanding of either sides.  He would suggest to someone to live           
 in the bush for any length of time to further understand both sides           
 of the issue.                                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 0782                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE CAREN ROBINSON asked Mr. Roczicka what special                 
 qualifications would he bring to the Board of Game, above what was            
 already there?                                                                
                                                                               
 Number 0802                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. ROCZICKA replied he would bring a cooperative approach.  He               
 cited due to his cooperative approach with the state, federal and             
 tribal entities, a dialogue existed now that was not there before.            
 He reiterated he would hope to bring that approach to the Board of            
 Game.                                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 0916                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE IVAN IVAN said "hello" to Mr. Roczicka.  It had been           
 a while since he had talked to him.  He commended him on his                  
 survival through the controversial issues, and for his work in                
 Western Alaska.                                                               
                                                                               
 Number 0938                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES explained she had not heard anything negative about Mr.           
 Roczicka, only support.  She appreciated his answers to the various           
 questions as well.  She gave him a 100 percent rating.                        
                                                                               
 Number 1125                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON wondered if today's public testimony was a            
 new policy.  She was not aware of public testimony as part of a               
 confirmation hearing.                                                         
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES replied that was her policy.                                      
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON replied she did not think it was wrong.  It           
 had not been done in the past, however.                                       
                                                                               
 The next order of business to come before the House State Affairs             
 Committee was the confirmation hearing of Anne K. Ruggles to the              
 Board of Game.                                                                
                                                                               
 Number 1168                                                                   
                                                                               
 ANNE K. RUGGLES said her primary interest in the Board of Game                
 peaked during her tenure on the Alaska Wolf Management Planning               
 Team.  Prior to that she had only been an observer of the process.            
 She explained she was first appointed by Governor Hickel to the               
 board in 1993.  She called her service a very challenging and                 
 rewarding three years.  She felt she knew the process well enough             
 to be an effective board member now.  Furthermore, as a scientist             
 she also found it extremely rewarding.  She explained scientists              
 sometimes tended to think they had all the answers and her service            
 on the board was a "wake up call."  She explained there was a large           
 component of sociology, anthropology, values and cultural                     
 experiences that needed to be added to the scientific process.  She           
 reiterated she had to grow as a scientist as a result of her                  
 service on the board.                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 1274                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN commented her background was impressive and              
 her research was very commendable.  He asked her, if she saw any              
 light at the end of the tunnel, regarding the management of                   
 wildlife between federal requirements and the Alaska State                    
 Constitution?                                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 1308                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. RUGGLES replied she leaned towards the answer of "yes."  She              
 believed there were people who wanted to make it work.  The state             
 needed to talk more amongst itself, however.  There were                      
 definitions that needed to be agreed upon and cited there were                
 probably over 600,000 definitions of the word "subsistence" in the            
 state.  She reiterated Alaska needed to continue to talk amongst              
 itself and to work at it.                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 1372                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN commented, Ms. Ruggles voted against the                  
 expansion of hunting opportunities for the Mulchatna caribou herd,            
 despite the fact that data indicated it was growing beyond its                
 range and the appropriate way to manage that herd would be to                 
 liberalize some land and expand hunting opportunities.  He asked              
 Ms. Ruggles to explain her vote.                                              
                                                                               
 Number 1402                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. RUGGLES replied her vote did not have anything to do with the             
 expansion of hunting opportunities.  She agreed there was plenty of           
 room to hunt the Mulchatna caribou herd.  Her vote was a comment on           
 the negative hunting effect.  She reiterated she did not have a               
 problem hunting the herd, she disagreed with the method, however.             
                                                                               
 Number 1445                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated it was essentially a meat hunt for the             
 locals.  Furthermore, he asked her to confirm rumors that she was             
 seen promoting people to sign the wolf initiative petition.                   
                                                                               
 Number 1476                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. RUGGLES replied she could not comment on rumors because she did           
 not know the genesis of them.  She stated she had nothing to do               
 with a wolf initiative petition.  She explained she was asked by a            
 number of people about the petition, however.  She was asked what             
 it contained and what it meant.  In response she always suggested             
 to obtain a copy of the petition, study it, then decide if a                  
 signature was appropriate.                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked Ms. Ruggles if she supported the                    
 petition?                                                                     
                                                                               
 MS. RUGGLES replied she did not like the petition process.  It was            
 not a legitimate way to manage wildlife.  She said it was a process           
 that people employed when they were frustrated with the system.               
                                                                               
 Number 1511                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked Ms. Ruggles if she supported same day               
 aerial hunting of wolves?                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 1516                                                                   
 MS. RUGGLES replied she did not support it as a mechanism for                 
 recreational or sport hunting.  She said it was not an ethical                
 method of hunting.  Many others, including hunters, believed it was           
 not ethical as well.                                                          
                                                                               
 Number 1542                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked Ms. Ruggles if she supported same day               
 aerial hunting of wolves as a tool for tests of management mandated           
 by Alaska State Statute?                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1555                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. RUGGLES replied, if it was a decision of the state to implement           
 a predator control program, she believed it was the most efficient            
 and effective way to kill the wolves.                                         
                                                                               
 Number 1570                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN responded that was a very carefully worded                
 answer.  He asked her again if she supported it?                              
                                                                               
 Number 1574                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. RUGGLES replied, if it was used as a legitimate tool for a                
 given circumstance, she support it.  The evidence indicated the               
 board was supporting that method.                                             
                                                                               
 Number 1587                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN commented Ms. Ruggles voted to close the                  
 hunting opportunities at the Paint River bear hunt despite there              
 were other areas closed to bear hunting.  He asked Ms. Ruggles why            
 she felt it was necessary to continue to restrict access and to               
 close areas to hunting?                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 1605                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. RUGGLES replied that was a special instance.  The McNeil bear             
 area refuge was an area that many people, hunters, non-hunters, and           
 guides, felt was a high viewing area.  Therefore, it was necessary            
 to protect the bear population and even individual bears.  She did            
 not believe it should be done everywhere, however.  She could not             
 recall another area that had such a high value for viewing as the             
 McNeil area.  At the same time the board closed that area to bear             
 hunting, it also increased brown bear hunting for residents in                
 other areas.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 1660                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated there was not a biological reason to               
 close the McNeil area to bear hunting.  There had been hunting for            
 20 years in that area without causing a detrimental impact on the             
 bear population.  He asked Ms. Ruggles if her reasons were                    
 scientific or emotional?                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1675                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. RUGGLES replied the basis for her reasons were more complex               
 than that.  She said she definitely had a philosophy when it came             
 to decision making on the board, and that philosophy derived from             
 her experiences as a human being and as a scientist.  She explained           
 scientific information should not make the decision.  Science could           
 only predict a particular action, and with some degree of                     
 certainty, the reaction.  Science was not designed to tell which              
 action to take, however.  Her decision making process also included           
 legal, political and sociological considerations.  She reiterated             
 science was a part of it, but it could not say which was the right            
 action to take.  The other points needed to be considered as well.            
                                                                               
 Number 1762                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN commented Ms. Ruggles voted against black bear            
 bait hunting because it was unethical, according to a quote in the            
 Anchorage Daily News.  He asked Ms. Ruggles to explain what she             
 meant by that comment.                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 1793                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. RUGGLES replied the decision to vote against black bear bait              
 hunting included all the components mentioned earlier.  She cited             
 a work published by the Department of Fish and Game in February of            
 1994, found it was not an ethical way to hunt.  The process favored           
 humans rather than a true hunt between humans and wildlife.                   
                                                                               
 Number 1844                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN commented on Ms. Ruggles' statement regarding            
 the action and reaction of science.  He wondered if she was                   
 questioning science, or the position of her votes based on                    
 scientific values.                                                            
                                                                               
 Number 1875                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. RUGGLES replied science could not say which action was the                
 right one to take.  Furthermore, it could only predict with a                 
 degree of certainty, the reaction.  Therefore, there were any                 
 number of actions that could be taken resulting in any number of              
 reactions.  She reiterated, science could not tell which action to            
 take, it was a decision of society.                                           
                                                                               
 Number 1900                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN wondered if she was questioning that science             
 was not the final answer.                                                     
                                                                               
 MS. RUGGLES replied, "right."  It was not the final answer.                   
                                                                               
 Number 1905                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON asked how many years did Ms. Ruggles serve            
 on the Board of Game?                                                         
                                                                               
 MS. RUGGLES replied, "three years."                                           
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON further asked Ms. Ruggles for examples of             
 her actions that supported hunting.                                           
                                                                               
 Number 1921                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. RUGGLES replied she had supported hunting many times.  She                
 cited, as examples, increased goat hunting opportunities, increased           
 variety of weapons available for use on hunts, and increased                  
 caribou hunting opportunities.  She also worked on creating the               
 wild hunt on Round Island.  She further cited increased dealer bag            
 limits in a number of places, wolf trapping seasons, and martin               
 seasons as examples where access and weapon creativity were looked            
 at.                                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 1984                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON asked Ms. Ruggles if she was a hunter                 
 herself?                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1989                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. RUGGLES replied she and her husband did not hunt for themselves           
 because they did not eat enough meat to warrant the hunt.  However,           
 they did go hunting with friends and shared a portion of the meat             
 with them.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 2007                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE WILLIS asked Ms. Ruggles to respond to the letter              
 from Senator Bert Sharp dated March 13, 1996.                                 
                                                                               
 Number 2028                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. RUGGLES replied she had not seen the letter so she could not              
 respond to it.                                                                
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES announced it would be faxed to her.                               
                                                                               
 Number 2052                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE WILLIS read the following letter into the record.              
 "Date:  March 13, 1996                                                        
                                                                               
 "To:    Representative Jeanette James                                         
                                                                               
 "From:  Senator Bert Sharp                                                    
                                                                               
 "RE:    Ann Ruggles re-appointment to the Board of Game                       
                                                                               
 "Ann Ruggles record as a Board of Game member is clear.  She has              
 consistently been a dissenting vote against hunting activities and            
 proposals to increase depressed moose and caribou herd size by                
 active management.                                                            
                                                                               
 "She has supported the elimination of hunting via closing areas,              
 eliminating or reducing open seasons, restricting methods and means           
 of taking and promoting bio-diversity which is keyed to removing              
 human harvest from the equation of beneficial uses of the game                
 resources.                                                                    
                                                                               
 "Her philosophy is clearly illustrated by her own words on her                
 resume.  `My goal is to devise ways in which humans can exist in              
 the natural world with minimal impact on the natural systems.'                
                                                                               
 "She is not qualified to serve as an objective policymaker in the             
 management of game resources as required by the Constitution and              
 laws of Alaska.                                                               
                                                                               
 "I strongly urge Ms. Ruggles NOT be confirmed by the Legislature."          
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE WILLIS asked Ms. Ruggles to respond to the letter.             
                                                                               
 Number 2152                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. RUGGLES said according to her voting record, she voted in favor           
 of all instances that increased opportunities without harming the             
 wildlife in question.  She could not respond to the specific                  
 concerns of Senator Sharp because she could not recall any specific           
 long conversations with him.  It appeared, however, he was                    
 concerned about a hand full of votes that apparently colored her              
 entire voting record.  Furthermore, the requirements of the Board             
 of Game were to reflect the diversity of values and experiences               
 held by Alaskans.  There were many Alaskans that believed human               
 beings existed in the natural world.  She called the statement in             
 her resume a general global statement.  Her goal was to manage the            
 system so that in 100 years there was a continued need to have a              
 Board of Game, and the systems were still largely intact.  That was           
 the best answer she could give without knowing what exactly were              
 his specific concerns.                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 2396                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked Ms. Ruggles which hunting method she              
 found offensive regarding the Mulchatna caribou herd?                         
                                                                               
 Number 2306                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. RUGGLES replied the method she found offense was same day                 
 airborne hunting.  She described the method as someone flying in,             
 shooting the caribou, then leaving right away.  She explained it              
 had been abused in the past, and was viewed as unsportsmanlike by             
 many.  The decision came down to an ethical decision on the part of           
 the board.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 2333                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN cited a scenario where a four-legged predator            
 preyed predominately on the young and the week, and a two-legged              
 predator preyed predominately on the upper-end of the species.  He            
 wondered which of the predators would she curtail in a period of              
 reduced game?                                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 2365                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. RUGGLES stated a four-legged predator was probably more apt to            
 take whatever was most easily available which could be the young,             
 the old, or the stupid, for example.  She said everybody had to               
 take the heat in a declining population.  A four-legged predator              
 would, however, step back somewhat in the long run as food became             
 less available.  She further stated an increase in a hunting and              
 trapping season was also fine.                                                
                                                                               
 Number 2395                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked if she meant an increase in hunting and            
 trapping for the four-legged predators?                                       
                                                                               
 MS. RUGGLES replied, "right."                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 2400                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES commented she was part of the House Resources Committee           
 when Ms. Ruggles was first appointed to the Board of Game.  At that           
 time the wolf control issue was even more controversial than today.           
 At the confirmation hearing, Ms. Ruggles said, if there was a need            
 to reduce the population of wolves, the aerial method was the best            
 way to take out the whole pack.  She asked Ms. Ruggles to comment.            
                                                                               
 Number 2438                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. RUGGLES replied aerial hunting was probably the most efficient,           
 effective and humane way to remove an animal.                                 
                                                                               
 Number 2457                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES wondered, however, if it was the best public policy               
 because it was an emotional issue.                                            
                                                                               
 TAPE 96-36, SIDE B                                                            
 Number 0000                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES stated the reason why people opposed wolf control was             
 because of the method of aerial hunting.  Yet, Ms. Ruggles said it            
 was the most efficient, effective and human way to remove an                  
 animal.  She wondered if that was the attitude of the general                 
 public.                                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 0026                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. RUGGLES replied that was one component of the opposition.  She            
 explained there were many that viewed aerial hunting as an                    
 unethical method which was the reason why there was a federal                 
 airborne hunting act.  There was a distinction between hunting and            
 controlling, however.  Many people viewed the control of a                    
 population as unethical at the expense of another species, such as,           
 recreational activities of human beings.  Many people also feared             
 Alaska would make the same mistakes that were made in the Lower               
 Forty-Eight regarding game management.  The technology was more               
 advanced today, however, to help prevent that from happening.                 
 Furthermore, she felt that outside influences were trying to                  
 inhibit the state from participating in a predator control                    
 activity.  Alaskans were a diverse group of people compared to                
 anywhere else in the United States, therefore, we needed to start             
 talking amongst ourselves.  She called for constructive dialogue              
 within the state.  It had been done in a small way before.  It                
 started with the wolf management planning team and continued with             
 the forty mile caribou planning team.  She called it a long, slow             
 and tedious process, the benefit of a democratic society.                     
                                                                               
 Number 0151                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES explained legislation had been passed to mandate                  
 intensive game management decision making for the future of the               
 state.   Intensive game management did not mean, however, cutting             
 off the ability to recreate.  The word "recreate" had two meanings            
 according to Chair James - to recreate for fun and to recreate for            
 food.  She commented Ms. Ruggles was a deep thinker and weighed all           
 of the considerations.  However, it appeared that her personal                
 choice was with those that did not want to kill animals and cited             
 her choice to hunt with her friends.                                          
                                                                               
 Number 0227                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. RUGGLES replied she lived as a farmer and rancher for most of             
 her life in Texas.  Therefore, as a farmer and rancher she killed             
 and butchered most of what she ate.  She said she had no problem              
 killing animals.  Moreover, she worked as a biochemical geneticist            
 where she killed hundreds of animals in a laboratory setting for              
 research.  She reiterated her family did not hunt because they did            
 not eat enough meat so it would be a waste to take a moose, for               
 example.  She was sorry if Chair James felt that was wrong.  The              
 hunting relationship between her family and her friends was very              
 amicable.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 0259                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES replied she did not say it was wrong.  It just                    
 indicated that Ms. Ruggles was on one side of the fence as opposed            
 to the other side, and not in the middle.                                     
                                                                               
 Number 0276                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN commented Article VIII of the Alaska State                
 Constitution said the state should manage its resources on a                  
 sustained yield basis.  The legislature passed a statute to further           
 that philosophy to intensively manage the resources.  He asked Ms.            
 Ruggles, if she would be willing to take the oath seriously, to               
 defend the Alaska State Constitution?  He further asked Ms. Ruggles           
 if she would be willing to recognize that the legislature was the             
 policy setter and vote in favor to intensively manage game, even if           
 it included issues that were a problem for her personally, such as            
 aerial wolf hunting, if it was the most efficient?                            
                                                                               
 Number 0311                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. RUGGLES replied when presented with a proposal, she would                 
 consider the law, the data, and the public input to make a                    
 decision.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 0335                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said it was a "yes" or "no" answer.                       
                                                                               
 MS. RUGGLES replied if everything else fell into line and it was a            
 good proposal with sufficient support, then she would vote "yes."             
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN replied, "that's what I thought you'd say."               
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES announced the House State Affairs Committee would not             
 be hearing HB 383 and HB 371 today due to time constraints.                   
                                                                               
 The next order of business to come before the House State Affairs             
 Committee was the confirmation hearing of Victor Van Ballenberghe             
 for the Board of Game.                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 0449                                                                   
                                                                               
 VICTOR VAN BALLENBERGHE thanked the committee members for their               
 interest in the process.  He explained if it were not for hunting             
 he would not be here before the committee members today.  He grew             
 up on a farm with guns, traps and fishing poles.  He had not missed           
 a single year of hunting or fishing either in Alaska or outside.              
 He called himself an avid hunter with a personal interest.                    
 Moreover, he explained he was a wildlife biologist with 30 years of           
 experience.  He had graduate degrees from the University of                   
 Minnesota in Wildlife Management.  He was also a certified wildlife           
 biologist.  He explained he came to Alaska in 1974 to work for the            
 Department of Fish and Game as a research biologist.  He lived in             
 Fairbanks from 1977-1987 and worked for the Department of Fish and            
 Game as a statewide fur bear biologist.  He lived in Anchorage from           
 1980 to the present as a researcher for the USDA Forest Service.              
 In 1985 Governor Sheffield appointed him to the Board of Game of              
 which he served one term.  At the time the board was dealing with             
 many of the same contentious issues today such as, subsistence,               
 wolf management, rural and non-rural community uses, and land and             
 shot hunting.  Furthermore, there were rich wildlife resources in             
 Alaska and many people had a stake in the wildlife either as a                
 hunter or as a tourist.  He said he was looking forward to                    
 participating as a board member to balance the various uses.  He              
 announced he would provide written material on several of the                 
 volatile issues that had faced the board recently.  He wanted to              
 put his position in writing so that there was no doubt where he               
 stood.                                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 0705                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Mr. Ballenberghe to comment on his                 
 publication on wolf predation of the Nelchina caribou herd.                   
                                                                               
 Number 0735                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. BALLENBERGHE stated there was also a more recent article                  
 published in 1985.  He explained the two articles were an attempt             
 to summarize the data on predation of the Nelchina caribou herd               
 from the 1950's to the 1980's.  He called it a technical article.             
 The article concluded wolf predation played a minor role during the           
 periods of ups and downs of the herd.  Furthermore, from the 1980's           
 to the present, the article concluded, wolf predation played an               
 even lesser role.  He cited there were about 50,000 caribou in the            
 herd now and around 20,000 moose in the area and approximately 300            
 wolves.  The number of wolves was insufficient to impact the                  
 caribou herd.                                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 0795                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN explained he had a copy of a letter by                    
 defenders of wildlife action dated December 10, 1987 calling for              
 support to help Mr. Ballenberghe's confirmation.  He was not                  
 confirmed, however.  Representative Ogan asked if Mr. Ballenberghe            
 was aware of any organizations now acting on his behalf?                      
                                                                               
 Number 0848                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. BALLENBERGHE replied clearly he did not sympathize with animal            
 rights.  He hunted, ate meat, wore leather and fur, and did not               
 believe in liberating laboratory animals.  He reiterated he did not           
 share in their agenda.  He did recognize, however, that the people            
 who did acknowledge their agenda supported him because his views              
 were the closest to theirs.  Most members on the board did not have           
 views that were towards the middle ground.  He explained he had not           
 solicited support from animal rights groups, and if they choose to            
 support him, he suggested looking at the proper context.                      
                                                                               
 Number 0908                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE WILLIS asked Mr. Ballenberghe if he saw any                    
 conflicts or potential ethical problems with his service because he           
 was a federal employee?  The question was based on a concern of a             
 constituent.  He further asked if his responsibilities were                   
 centered around research activities or policies?                              
                                                                               
 Number 0940                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. BALLENBERGHE replied his effort was entirely in research.                 
 There was a division between research and management.  He did not             
 work for or under the management branch of the USDA Forest Service.           
 He did not feel there would be a conflict and would mitigate any              
 appearance of a conflict.  He cited he would abstain from specific            
 issues such as the Tongass National Forest to prevent the                     
 appearance of a potential conflict of interest.                               
                                                                               
 Number 0987                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE WILLIS asked Mr. Ballenberghe if there was a                   
 connection between his employment with the USDA Forest Service and            
 the Federal Subsistence Board?                                                
                                                                               
 Number 1001                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. BALLENBERGHE replied, "none whatever."  There was no                      
 relationship or connection.  There was a member on the Federal                
 Subsistence Board who worked for the management branch of the USDA            
 Forest Service, however.  He reiterated the management branch was             
 separate from the research branch.                                            
                                                                               
 Number 1028                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES asked Mr. Ballenberghe under what biological                      
 circumstances would he vote to support wolf control?                          
                                                                               
 Number 1038                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. BALLENBERGHE said it was an issue that he had grappled with in            
 the past.  In the past he voted for wolf control measures, and over           
 the years he had maintained the same standards.  There must be firm           
 biological data to support the method, however.  Furthermore, the             
 cost-to-benefit ratio needed to be favorable along with broad                 
 public support.  He cited the tourism industry indicated there was            
 a potential for an $85 million loss to the state if it went ahead             
 with an aerial wolf control program a few years ago.  He reiterated           
 public support needed to be considered.  Finally, the methods                 
 needed to be sufficient and humane.  Considering all those factors,           
 he would vote in favor of it.                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 1142                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES commented it appeared Mr. Ballenberghe succumbed to the           
 threats from outsiders rather than to the Alaskan way.  She was               
 referring to the potential tourist boycott he mentioned.                      
                                                                               
 Number 1193                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. BALLENBERGHE said he did not claim to be a politician.  He                
 agreed with the general idea that the locals should have the                  
 predominant voice in resource management.  However, when the                  
 Governor received 20,000 letters opposing aerial wolf control in              
 1990, something had to give.  To believe that the international               
 protest did not have an affect on the board, was to ignore reality.           
                                                                               
 Number 1259                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES replied the reason board members were confirmed was to            
 protect the state of Alaska.  The Alaskan public needed to be                 
 satisfied as well as outside interests.                                       
                                                                               
 Number 1291                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. BALLENBERGHE responded he was prepared as a biologist to                  
 evaluate the programs and defend the decisions as a board member.             
                                                                               
 Number 1316                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated there had not been cost effective                  
 programs in the past.  He cited flying around in a helicopter was             
 expensive.  The most efficient methods were to include the private            
 sector to liberalize hunting seasons, and to liberalize methods and           
 means, at the direction of the board, to intensively manage wolves.           
 There was broad public support for the most part in the state of              
 Alaska.  The last program failed because the board gave into the              
 public outcry.  He called a tourism boycott a smoke screen.  He               
 said, "if someone doesn't want to come to our state because we                
 control wolves, I'd just assume they stay home."  Furthermore, the            
 battle cry of the Alaskan hunter was, "save the baby moose and                
 caribou."                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 1399                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES stated there was a problem in Alaska with the competing           
 forces between the timber operators, fishing operators, mining                
 operators, and agriculture operators to maintain a livelihood, as             
 opposed to relying on federal and oil revenue.  She wondered what             
 considerations Mr. Ballenberghe would give to those issues and to             
 their importance.                                                             
                                                                               
 Number 1463                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. BALLENBERGHE replied he agreed with Chair James.  They were               
 important issues.  He realized during his last tenure on the board,           
 that many of the decisions significantly affected people's lives              
 and livelihood.  He said subsistence was the cash economy of rural            
 areas.  He learned that lesson the last time he was on the board              
 and was willing to consider those issues as part of the decisions             
 again.                                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 1525                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES agreed that subsistence was just another industry.  It            
 was the way many people served their basic needs of food, clothing            
 and shelter.  It was as much of an industry as timer, mining,                 
 fishing and agriculture that create a cash crop.                              
                                                                               
 Number 1556                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON commented as a member of the Board of Game            
 it took a lot of time and energy.  She asked Mr. Ballenberghe if he           
 had the time and energy to expend?  She also asked what special               
 qualifications did he bring to the board?                                     
                                                                               
 Number 1582                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. BALLENBERGHE replied he had the time, interest and energy to be           
 a member of the Board of Game.  Furthermore, he had a thick hide to           
 handle the controversial issues as well.  He felt his record as a             
 wildlife biologist would be the special qualification he would                
 bring to the board.  Moreover, many of the issues were volatile and           
 controversial so a balanced board was needed.  He was prepared to             
 help contribute to the balance.                                               
                                                                               
 Number 1672                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked Mr. Ballenberghe, if faced with a                 
 situation where there was a conflict between the law, biological              
 theory, and his personal preference which one would he error in               
 favor of?                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 1691                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. BALLENBERGHE replied clearly the Board of Game must follow the            
 law.  It was easy to lose sight that the board had a narrow                   
 opportunity to address issues.  The legislature, the courts, and              
 the federal government set the broad policy guidelines and the job            
 of the board was to try to operate within those guidelines.  He               
 said he was inclined to say the law must be followed first.                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the first witness via teleconference in                 
 Anchorage, Leo Keeler.                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 1806                                                                   
                                                                               
 LEO KEELER called himself an avid hunter.  He supported the                   
 confirmation of Mr. Ballenberghe.  He said Mr. Ballenberghe had               
 helped many hunters and cited his participation in the Sportsman              
 Show in Anchorage.  Furthermore, his scientific background would              
 lend credibility to the board as well as his past experience on the           
 board.  He asked Mr. Ballenberghe his position on archery hunting             
 surrounding black bear baiting?  He further asked his position on             
 boycotting other industries as well as hunters?                               
                                                                               
 Number 1887                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. BALLENBERGHE replied black bear baiting was a controversial               
 issue that had been before the board in the past.  He explained he            
 was contacted by one of the proponents to repeal the bear banning             
 regulations.  He declined to support it, however.  Ten years ago              
 the board began its efforts to reform the practice of bear baiting.           
 Consequently, the hunters had to register their bait stations and             
 limit the number of stations.  The current situation was a comprise           
 as a result of many years of efforts.  The board addressed the                
 issue again recently, and he would have voted to maintain the                 
 current regulations, had he been a member.  Moreover, he said he              
 did not understand the boycott question asked by Mr. Keeler.                  
 Blackmail was not a good way to conduct business.  Generally, it              
 was ineffective.                                                              
                                                                               
 MR. KEELER further stated his support for Mr. Roczicka and Ms.                
 Ruggles.                                                                      
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in                  
 Anchorage, Robert Nance.                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 2032                                                                   
                                                                               
 ROBERT NANCE said he had been a resident of Alaska since 1962.  He            
 came to Alaska because of the hunting cooperative laws.  He was               
 also interested in wildlife management.  He expressed his support             
 for Mr. Ballenberghe because of his strong interest in hunting and            
 other hunters.  He would be a valuable addition to the Board of               
 Game as both a biologist and a hunter, and he would look at the               
 issues from both sides.  He asked Mr. Ballenberghe his position on            
 the land and shot wolf hunting issue?                                         
                                                                               
 Number 2086                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. BALLENBERGHE replied the board had addressed this issue                   
 previously.  He explained there was now a provision that called for           
 the hunter to move a certain distance from the airplane before                
 shooting the animal.  The present regulation was a compromise as a            
 result of a lot of effort and time.  He said he supported the                 
 current regulations and did not have any intention to oppose them.            
                                                                               
 Number 2149                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated land and shot for deer had been and                
 continued to be an accepted practice in many areas of the state.              
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in                  
 Anchorage, Jay Massey.                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 2184                                                                   
                                                                               
 JAY MASSEY said he had been a resident of Alaska for the past 28              
 years.  He was a former employee of the Department of Fish and                
 Game, a registered guide outfitter, an author of four books on                
 archery and bow hunting, and had served for one term on the Board             
 of Game.  He expressed his support for Mr. Ballenberghe both as a             
 wildlife professional researcher and as a man of charter and                  
 integrity.  He had known him for 20 year.  He further said he had             
 the perfect temperament to serve on the board - fair, open and                
 willing to listen.  He did not understand the opposition to his               
 appointment.  The narrow issue of predator control seemed to cause            
 conflict.  He explained Mr. Ballenberghe was not against predator             
 control when presented with a good reason.  He reiterated his                 
 support for Mr. Ballenberghe.                                                 
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in                  
 Anchorage, Warren Olson.                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 2370                                                                   
                                                                               
 WARREN OLSON said Mr. Ballenberghe had an excellent background,               
 experience and interest to serve on the Board of Game.  However,              
 there was a serious problem within Alaska regarding the                       
 relationship between a state agency and a federal agency.                     
 Therefore, Mr. Ballenberghe presented a conflict of interest.  He             
 cited the issues of adjacent lands, public lands and parks.  He               
 expressed he did not support either Mr. Ballenberghe or Ms.                   
 Ruggles.                                                                      
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES announced HB 383 would not be heard today due to time             
 constraints.  She explained it would be scheduled for the next                
 House State Affairs Committee meeting date.                                   
                                                                               
 TAPE 96-37, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 0000                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in Homer,           
 Marvin Park.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 0038                                                                   
                                                                               
 MARVIN PARK, Legislative Vice President, Alaska Bow Hunters, echoed           
 Mr. Olson's concerns regarding Mr. Ballenberghe.  He was not                  
 against him personally, but in today's climate of the federal                 
 government trying to take over, he questioned the appropriateness             
 of his appointment.  He also explained the voting record of Ms.               
 Ruggles favored restricting hunting and trapping.  He cited the               
 board voted in support of personal values regarding ethics and fair           
 chase.  However, Ms. Ruggles did not vote in support of personal              
 values.  He called it a huge vote.  She voted in favor of her                 
 personal values and not the values of the people she was suppose to           
 be representing.  He reiterated the Alaska Bow Hunters did not                
 support either Ms. Ruggles or Mr. Ballenberghe.                               
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in Homer,           
 Dan Haskins.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 0170                                                                   
                                                                               
 DAN HASKINS said he supported the testimony of Mr. Park.  He stated           
 there was a conflict of interest between a federal agency and a               
 state appointed position to the board.                                        
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES announced she had received 18 Public Opinion Messages             
 regarding the appointments.  She explained all but one were opposed           
 to the appointment of Ms. Ruggles and Mr. Ballenberghe.                       
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in                  
 Fairbanks, Trish Wurtz.                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 0262                                                                   
                                                                               
 TRISH WURTZ stated she supported the appointment of Mr.                       
 Ballenberghe to the Board of Game.  She knew him personally when he           
 lived in Fairbanks.  He would support the views of hunters well.              
 In addition, his resume indicated he was a very accomplished                  
 scientist.  The people of Alaska should recognize his willingness             
 to serve on the board and support his confirmation.                           
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in                  
 Fairbanks, Katherine Richardson.                                              
                                                                               
 Number 0347                                                                   
                                                                               
 KATHERINE RICHARDSON expressed her strong support for the                     
 reappointment of Ms. Ruggles.  Ms. Ruggles attended the meetings              
 regularly, participated actively, and gave thoughtful consideration           
 of the issues.  She also kept in touch with people and attended               
 meetings between boards.  Furthermore, she was able to combine                
 science and policy.  She had great scientific knowledge and was               
 also able to work with people.  She did not represent any agency or           
 organization, therefore, she did not have a political agenda.  She            
 also believed Ms. Ruggles spoke for many Alaskans.  She reiterated            
 her support for her.                                                          
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in                  
 Fairbanks, James Davis.                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 0446                                                                   
                                                                               
 JAMES DAVIS expressed his support for Mr. Ballenberghe.  He                   
 explained his entire life was oriented around wildlife as a retired           
 wildlife biologist himself.  He knew Mr. Ballenberghe personally              
 and professionally, and respected him as a fellow wildlife                    
 biologist.  It would serve Alaska well to have a wildlife biologist           
 on the board for his special views and contributions.                         
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in Delta            
 Junction, Nat Good.                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 0573                                                                   
                                                                               
 NAT GOOD, Member, Delta Junction Fish and Game Advisory Committee,            
 read the following position statement into the record.                        
                                                                               
 "The Delta Junction Fish and Game Advisory Committee opposes the              
 confirmation of Vic Van Ballenberghe to the State of Alaska Game              
 Board.  With the removal of Sue Entsminger of Tok from the Game               
 Board, Governor Knowles has left the Eastern Interior and rural               
 Alaska with diminished representation.  Sue Entsminger was the only           
 State Game Board member to actually send questionnaires Statewide             
 to poll committees about State game issues.  Sue recognized the               
 importance of local knowledge and experience!                                 
                                                                               
 "It appears to us that Governor Knowles wishes to appoint a                   
 `global' urban biologist who is more interested in being                      
 politically correct than biologically sound.  We doubt that he                
 recognizes the importance of understanding that we have ecosystems            
 within each of our game management area, and that each must be                
 dealt with individually.  Intensive Management actually is the                
 maintaining of all species, predator and prey alike, and of their             
 environments, in each given area to provide an optimum growth rate,           
 which should automatically provide for optimum harvest, as well as            
 optimum viewing for Alaska residents.                                         
                                                                               
 "We believe that local game advisory committees know and understand           
 the game and predator populations of their local area better than             
 State Game Board members and biologists who are unfamiliar with               
 local areas.  The Alaska Board of Game needs representation from              
 all areas of the state, including our area, and members who are               
 sensitive to what advisory committees have to say.                            
                                                                               
 "Please do not disenfranchise us!"                                            
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in Tok,             
 John Zabielski.                                                               
                                                                               
 Number 0675                                                                   
                                                                               
 JOHN ZABIELSKI said he had lived in Tok for 20 years.  He was a               
 full-time trapper and guide outfitter.  His lifestyle was directly            
 related to the quantity and quality of the state's resources.                 
 Therefore, he was deeply concerned about its management.  He                  
 strongly supported the appointment of Mr. Ballenberghe.  His                  
 qualifications, experience, and knowledge of the state's resources            
 were well documented as well as his integrity.  He said the                   
 "country" of Alaska would be well served by his appointment.                  
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in Kenai,           
 Robert E. Brown.                                                              
                                                                               
 Number 0739                                                                   
                                                                               
 ROBERT E. BROWN read the following position statement into the                
 record.                                                                       
                                                                               
 "I adamantly object to the appointment of Anne Ruggles to the State           
 Game Board.  Her anti-hunting position will continually harm the              
 current make-up of the board.  I personally do not see where a                
 balance can be agreed upon in the rules and regulations with anti-            
 hunting opinions so prominent on the board.                                   
                                                                               
 "I came to Alaska twenty years ago with the concept of having                 
 freedom to enjoy the wondrous outdoors this state has to offer.               
 Conservation, hunting and fishing are parts of this freedom that go           
 hand in hand with accountability to future generations.  Now that             
 I have children, I have been able to pass along the same fondness             
 and rights to them.  I have taught them the importance and have               
 given them an understanding about the balance of nature and the               
 role man has in harvesting game as a healthy and proper management            
 tool.                                                                         
                                                                               
 "This balance will be greatly disrupted with the addition of Ms.              
 Ruggles to the Board.  I also feel strongly that her anti-hunting             
 cynicism will and has had a drastic effect on the rules and                   
 regulations responsible hunters and conservationists abide by.                
                                                                               
 "It scares me to think what the future of hunting in this great               
 state will have in store with the inclusion of Ms. Ruggles to the             
 board.  I see my rights as a hunter and the freedom to provide for            
 my family being taken away little by little.  The right of passage            
 to my children of a tradition I hold dear will be uprooted if I               
 remain quiet.  With this in mind, I must sound out loudly in                  
 protest and hope that you as lawmakers hear me and my children."              
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in Mat-             
 Su, Roy Burkhart.                                                             
                                                                               
 Number 0851                                                                   
                                                                               
 ROY BURKHART said he had been a resident of Alaska for 36 years.              
 He opposed the appointment of Ms. Ruggles to the Board of Game.  He           
 cited a hearing in Anchorage where he drove 75 miles to attend the            
 hearing to testify.  At the completion of the testimony, the board            
 voted 6 to 1 in favor of continuing bear baiting.  Ms. Ruggles                
 voted against it and the reasons stated were that she believed it             
 was unethical.  He noted during her testimony today she used the              
 words "ethical" and "unethical" at least a dozen times.  He wanted            
 to know why her opinion on ethics was any better than his?                    
 Furthermore, he opposed the appointment of Mr. Ballenberghe also.             
 He said two biologists were not needed on the board.  The purpose             
 of the board was to sit and listen to input from other sources and            
 the public.  He wondered if he would cave in on issues related to             
 the federal government because he caved in on the issue of wolf               
 control when faced with a potential tourist boycott.                          
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in Mat-             
 Su, Elizabeth Burkhart.                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 0971                                                                   
                                                                               
 ELIZABETH BURKHART said Ms. Ruggles was the only one to vote                  
 against bear baiting even after numerous people testified in favor            
 of the issue because it was unethical and went against her personal           
 conviction.  She voted for her personal convictions rather than               
 listening to the testimony.  The key words were "listening" and               
 "hearing."  Ms. Ruggles had demonstrated that she did not do either           
 one very well.  Please do not approve her nomination.  Appoint                
 someone who will listen and vote accordingly.  Furthermore, she did           
 not support the appointment of Mr. Ballenberghe.  She echoed the              
 previous testifiers regarding the conflict of interest issue.                 
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in Mat-             
 Su, David Grinde.                                                             
                                                                               
 Number 1042                                                                   
                                                                               
 DAVID GRINDE said he supported the testimony of Mr. and Mrs.                  
 Burkhart.  He did not support the appointment of Ms. Ruggles or Mr.           
 Ballenberghe.  He commended their dedication and thoughtfulness,              
 but neither could function objectively in the framework of                    
 intensive management.  They carried too much personal bias towards            
 issues like sportsmanship, and ethics in wolf control, for example.           
 He said ethics should not be in the equation under a management               
 program.  Sportsmanship was not an issue in intensive management to           
 get the job done either.  He reiterated they both emphasized                  
 sportsmanship and ethics too much.                                            
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in Mat-             
 Su, Wayne Woods.                                                              
                                                                               
 Number 1109                                                                   
                                                                               
 WAYNE WOODS said there were huge areas of Alaska that were                    
 currently closed to hunting by the federal government and left to             
 natural cycles.  This left a much reduced area for Alaskans to hunt           
 and recreate in.  The Board of Game was mandated to manage federal            
 wildlife resources for a sustained yield for the people of Alaska.            
 He said the consumptive users of wildlife provided the funding for            
 its management.  He felt that Ms. Ruggles and Mr. Ballenberghe                
 represented a hard turn away from human consumptive use priorities.           
 Their appointment represented a danger to the heritage that he                
 wanted to pass on to his children.                                            
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in Mat-             
 Su, Gary Pahl.                                                                
                                                                               
 Number 1165                                                                   
                                                                               
 GARY PAHL said he was a 25 year resident of Alaska.  He strongly              
 opposed the appointment of Ms. Ruggles and Mr. Ballenberghe.  He              
 said Ms. Ruggles' past record spoke for itself including her anti-            
 hunting record.  He further said Mr. Ballenberghe presented a                 
 conflict of interest between the federal and state government. He             
 said a state biologist or law enforcement officer could not hold a            
 board position.  Therefore, he wondered why a federal biologist               
 could hold a position on a state board.                                       
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in Mat-             
 Su, Ken Rivard.                                                               
                                                                               
 Number 1224                                                                   
                                                                               
 KEN RIVARD said he opposed the appointments of Ms. Ruggles and Mr.            
 Ballenberghe.  He supported previous testimony regarding the                  
 conflict of interest for Mr. Ballenberghe and the track record of             
 anti-hunting sentiments of Ms. Ruggles.  Furthermore, current game            
 provisions allowed a caribou to be hunted while swimming across a             
 river in game management units 23 and 26.  He wondered why that had           
 not been addressed.  Furthermore, in units 13 and 14 a permit                 
 system existed for wolf control.  The wolves were hunted at no cost           
 to the state.  He said the system should be investigated further              
 and re-instituted.  The Canadians did not let ethics and morality             
 of the public interfere with their wolf control.  He cited "The               
 Come Back Trail" film as a good example of predator control                   
 management.                                                                   
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness via teleconference in Mat-             
 Su, Leonard Haire.                                                            
                                                                               
 Number 1309                                                                   
                                                                               
 LEONARD HAIRE said he was a 25 year resident of Alaska.  He did not           
 support the confirmation of Ms. Ruggles.                                      
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness in Juneau, Eddie Grasser.              
                                                                               
 Number 1339                                                                   
                                                                               
 EDDIE GRASSER, Member, Alaska Outdoor Council, said the Council was           
 the largest pro-trapping and hunting conservation group in the                
 state.  The present membership was 12,000.  The Council opposed the           
 confirmation of Ms. Ruggles and Mr. Ballenberghe, and supported the           
 confirmation of Mr. Roczicka.  The Council did not have any                   
 problems with the credential of Ms. Ruggles and Mr. Ballenberghe,             
 however, the members of the Council did not support the                       
 philosophical bent of the two appointees.  The Council believed               
 that wildlife management should include practices that were                   
 beneficial to the human uses of the wildlife and not necessarily              
 restricting its use to viewing, for example.  He said there were no           
 areas in the state that were closed to viewing, however, there were           
 large areas closed to hunting.  A balance was needed, and Ms.                 
 Ruggles failed to recognize that based on her past voting record on           
 the board.  The portion of the public that continued to cry for               
 closure was philosophically opposed to hunting.  Moreover, the                
 Council viewed that personal ethics should not play a role in the             
 decision making process of wildlife management.  The Council                  
 believed it was constitutionally inappropriate.  The right to hunt            
 was an inherent right.                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 1507                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON asked Mr. Grasser if the Council supported            
 Ms. Ruggles the first time around?                                            
                                                                               
 MR. GRASSER replied, "yes, we did."                                           
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the first witness in Juneau, Carl Rosier.               
                                                                               
 Number 1523                                                                   
                                                                               
 CARL ROSIER, Vice President, Territorial Sportsman Inc., said the             
 Sportsman represented around 2,000 hunters and fishermen.  He said            
 the means by which the state managed wildlife was really at stake             
 with the appointments.  The Sportsman stated it supported Mr.                 
 Roczicka as an expert in the area of subsistence.  He would be a              
 first class addition to the board.  The Sportsman further stated it           
 did not support the confirmation of Ms. Ruggles.  He said he pushed           
 for her confirmation during Governor Hickel's tenure.  The push was           
 based on the objectivity she showed during the wolf planning                  
 process.  However, the Sportsman organization had seen her                    
 objectivity slip in the last year into the non-intensive crowd.               
 Furthermore, the Sportsman organization opposed the confirmation of           
 Mr. Ballenberghe, not as an individual or because of his                      
 credential, but because of the potential conflict of interest as a            
 federal employee.  He found it hard to believe that a federal                 
 employee could find the time and priority to do the necessary job.            
 It was hard to believe that the state would put forth a federal               
 employee as a nominee when the state was trying to prevent the                
 federal government from taking over the wildlife management of the            
 state.                                                                        
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES called on the next witness in Juneau, Joel Bennett.               
                                                                               
 Number 1697                                                                   
                                                                               
 JOEL BENNETT commented on the philosophical hunting issue of each             
 candidate.  He served on the Board of Game for 13 years of which              
 time was spent with Mr. Ballenberghe and Ms. Ruggles during their             
 appointments.  He knew them both personally and both were committed           
 to protecting the rights of the hunters in the state.  They both              
 supported responsible hunting in every way.  He said they did not             
 have a bias towards hunting.                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 1800                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON asked Mr. Ballenberghe if he was working              
 for the federal government before when he was a member of the Board           
 of Game and were there any problems?                                          
                                                                               
 Number 1819                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. BALLENBERGHE replied he was in the exact same position then as            
 he was now.  He served on the board for three years and the issue             
 never came up.  He reiterated in-order-to avoid the appearance of             
 a conflict he abstained from certain discussions on the Tongass               
 National Forest, for example.  He said he did not even know what              
 the federal agenda was and if he did he would not be interested in            
 pushing it.  He firmly believed that the state was the proper                 
 managing authority.                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 1870                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated the federal agenda was to take over the            
 management of fish and wildlife in the state of Alaska.                       
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES stated that people could change their ideas as thing              
 progressed.  Compared to 10 years ago, there was a public                     
 dissention towards the federal government.  Furthermore, the wolf             
 issue 10 years ago was also a different issue than today.  The                
 board needed to include members that could tune-in to the issues of           
 today.                                                                        
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES thanked the three appointees for their time today.  She           
 reiterated the bills that were not heard today, HB 383 and HB 371,            
 would be scheduled for the next state affairs meeting on Thursday,            
 March 21, 1996.                                                               
                                                                               
 The record further reflected that the House State Affairs Committee           
 received numerous opinion positions regarding the confirmation of             
 Greg Roczicka, Anne K. Ruggles, and Victor Van Ballenberghe.  Forty           
 were sent in opposition to the confirmation of Ms. Ruggles, Forty-            
 one were sent in opposition to Mr. Ballenberghe, and six were sent            
 in opposition to Mr. Roczicka.  Three were sent in support of Mr.             
 Ballenberghe.  Opinion positions were also sent from the President            
 of the Alaska Trappers Association, the Executive Director of the             
 Alaska Wildlife Conservation Association, the President of the                
 Alaska Wildland Adventures, and La Bau Forest Resource Consultant             
 Company.  A statement sent by Mr. Ballenberghe was also recognized.           
 Please refer to the Legislative Reference Library after adjournment           
 of the second session of the Alaska State Legislature for further             
 information.                                                                  
                                                                               
 ADJOURNMENT                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 1950                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIR JAMES adjourned the House State Affairs Committee meeting at            
 10:13 a.m.                                                                    
                                                                               
                                                                               

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